#bandrea blabbers

[andreabandrea]

Imagine that you are about to pass a stranger on the street. Assume that the stranger is not threatening to you in any way, and they are also not particularly strange or interesting. They're just a completely average person.

If you believe the answer depends, pick what you generally do most often and/or explain why in the tags :]

[andreabandrea]

whoops, a week has passed since I sent this, sorry. with that said, I feel pretty similarly. I've played it for-- I just checked, 320 hours so far. with that said, I start to get bored and even a little lonely/down in a way I can't really describe if I play it without a few mods. when I'm not playing it, it doesn't take up any real space in my mind unlike other dormant interests, and I think this is due to the general weakness of the writing and characters overall.

I'm going to put more thoughts/criticism of the game below the cut for my followers who might not want to see it, and also because it's long, but I want to emphasize I like Stardew Valley overall more than I dislike it, if that makes sense.

like you said, I have a huge amount of respect for the creator for still updating the game with new content, and how much there is to do for the price. I like the fishing system and the quest system, and I think that the customization is really fun.

My first and biggest criticism is how the game handles diversity. Granted, Harvest Moon/Story of Seasons has never been great about this but I still think it's fair to criticize SDV for how it drops the ball on this.

I'm grateful that ConcernedApe added gay marriage at all and lets you date anyone you want, and there's even some lines acknowledging queerness, like, "I've never felt this way about another guy/girl before". George is also homophobic if you date Alex as a man which is... interesting.

With that said, it feels a bit like a bare minimum. The game doesn't acknowledge queerness at all if you don't intentionally seek it out.

I think that this video expresses my thoughts a lot better on this topic. It talks about bisexuality and polyamory in video games (not just SDV) and how its often equated with promiscuity, cheating, insanity, among others. One point that's made is that all the characters in SDV aren't really bisexual, they're straight unless you date them as the same gender, in which case they 'become' bisexual.

In essence, they don't show interest in people of the same gender outside of the player. If you're dating Leah as a guy for example, she never mentions queerness at all, and her ex (from her heart events) will always match the player character's gender-- in this case, her ex will be a guy and not a girl since you're romancing her as a guy. All queer content is hidden away if you don't explicitly seek it out. A homophobe could play SDV and have no complaints at all.

Compare this to Baldur's Gate 3, where you can romance any of your companion characters, making them all bi/pan-- but they also flirt with each other, and have romantic history with people of various genders, and so on. While at the end of the day it is very likely just a way of making all the characters available to the player rather than a non-profit-driven attempt at representation, it still allows the characters an agency that the bachelor/ettes in SDV don't have.

Also regarding queerness, you still can't play as nonbinary even now, several huge content updates and years post-release. I don't know how hard it would be to just find & replace "grandson/daughter" with "grandchild", "husband/wife" with "spouse", and 'farmer boy/girl' with just… "farmer". The little player sprites are already pretty androgynous.

In addition, the only platonic partner who can live with you is Krobus. while I love Krobus, and I think a lot of people share this opinion, i think it sucks a little that the only aro/ace character that can be a platonic partner to you is a monster. Aro/ace people deserve to see themselves represented in humans, too.

I also wish we had some more racial diversity. we have Maru and Demetrius, but Pelican Town is overwhelmingly white (and cis). Concept art also had Maru with natural/coily hair, but in the final game, her hair was straightened out in a way that I think is both a huge downgrade and honestly reflecting misogynoir to an extent.

While SDV is a classic and I think always will be a touchstone which changed the genre, other farming games are outpacing SDV in this matter. I don't think farming games should only be judged on romance options, don't get me wrong, but the life sim element has become a big appeal to a lot of people and so I think it's fair to judge that portion of it.

Regarding the writing. I personally find all the love interests to be pretty bland and pretty… young-feeling. Alex is a football-obsessed jock, Sam is a band kid, Abigail is a cool girl who hates her dad. Maybe a lot of farming game fans are teens so they feel like this suits them, but I don't want to date and eventually marry someone who feels like they're 19-22 at oldest. You do have 'older' LIs like Emily, Harvey, Shane, (Emily and Shane were only added in a patch), etc but like. Your selection is still limited.

And don't get me wrong, these characters do try to reveal some interesting traits and twists to the tropes they're based on in their heart events, but none of them really stick with me at all. I don't think all the arcs really land, either. Shane never stops drinking beer and having beer cans littered in his spouse room even after his recovery arc, as far as I know. I like Penny, but I feel too much like I'm "saving" her. I found out the other day if you marry Sam that he never even attempts to help you with any of the farm chores in a way that's refusal to learn and care about your spouse's work & life at best and weaponized incompetence at worst.

I find the characters visually bland too? Like. Emily is supposed to be a cool alt hippie girl who's a fashion designer and yes shes got choppy blue hair (and pronouns) but she's just wearing a red dress and has no accessories or real spice to her. Give that woman a septum piercing for the love of god. A lot of the art just doesn't really feel amazing, in general, to me.

Also this is a minor gripe compared to everything else, but in regards to the blandess of the LIs-- they're all just available to you, with none of them being particularly more 'difficult' than others. A fun part of some Harvest Moon games in my opinion was being able to unlock new marriage candidates as you went on and/or having 'secret' characters. SDV could never have a Kiera or a Woofio. I think you should be able to marry the Wizard if you're past year 2 and cleared the Skull Cavern 10 times or something. Remember Nami and Kai leaving town periodically, too?

The anti-capitalism/anti-Joja Corporation plot also is pretty toothless. Save the Homeland had you in a race against time versus the theme park company, and Magical Melody gave you a farmer rival (even if Jamie can't really threaten you in a meaningful way). I don't really feel like going into this more right now, though. I know the game is meant to be #cozy, and so they don't let your animals die or let you "lose" to Joja, and that's fine. I know my tastes are unusual. I think that a little bit of stress makes games feel more satisfying in the long run.

The combat system is genuinely irredeemable. I don't have anything else to say on it.

What else. There's always one optimal way to progress your farm, which is to turn it into a giant Ancient Fruit monoculture and sell a shitload of aged Ancient Fruit Wine while selling 999999 Blueberries every Summer, etc. There's a very clear "optimal" perk progression system as well (always going with 'Farmer -> Artisan' path to supplement your Ancient Fruit Winery income). Having static prices with "best" crops to grow isn't exactly a gripe original to SDV, but I think that it's maybe just more apparent to me with this game. Maybe I've just played it too much.

But, its just really easy to get uber-rich, automate away all your farm work, and then have nothing left to do.

With that said, I'm still playing the 1.6 update so just imagine me in full clown makeup as I type all this.

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to ramble about all this, and thanks if you read it all, haha.

hi! sorry for the random question, but i was playing sdv 1.6 and i was wondering what your thoughts are on stardew valley (as a whole) as a fan of the harvest moon aka story of seasons games, particularly the older games in the series. i grew up with harvest moon 64 and friends of mineral town among other titles and i have my own answer to this question, but i dont want to potentially influence your answer so i'll withhold them for now. if you already answered this please excuse me haha

nah i've never talked about this. i have... perhaps too many thoughts on stardew to even attempt to put into words. someday i plan to write about it the way i'm writing about all the other harvest moon games, but it's kind of hard for me to do that for two reasons

i hate it

its the best farming sim

well maybe i dont hate it, but it irritates the hell out of me lmao. your progression is built around automating farming away. you're instead incentivized to spend your time in the mines getting materials so you can build the things that let you not farm, but the whole time you're in the mines, you have to contend with an onslaught of monsters attacking you with what might be the worst feeling combat system I have ever used. i also think the writing is flat, uncompelling, and there isn't a single character I like

it is the best farming sim because it has the best quality of life features i've seen in any of these games, the most customization and replayability, a great quest system, and tons of content by nature of being a game that's still fairly regularly updated (in its endless miyazaki style "this is the last one i swear" kind of way).

there's also the fact that I have a lot of nostalgia for old harvest moon, and i'm sick of stardew from playing it too much. but other than the writing gripe, i think this is a pretty objective critique.

[andreabandrea]

the thing you need to understand is that mario is not a young skinny guy. mario is a kindly old uncle to me. and he's fat, and thats fine. like. he's like an uncle who would babysit you as a kid and he never yells at you and would make you the best plate of spaghetti you've ever had, and when he leaves you can't wait to see him again. he loves going on adventures and he loves his brother and he loves the mushroom kingdom. and like he's a silent character in the RPGs but (to me) in the sense that he's just a quiet, humble guy who prefers to listen and when you're talking you can tell that he's listening and he cares. if you got interrupted in mid-sentence by someone else, mario would ask you to carry on where you left off when there was a chance. if you were walking in a group and you had to stop to tie your shoe, and everyone else went on without you, mario would wait for you patiently. i dont mind if you ship him and peach but to me he doesnt rescue her because of romantic love, he's just a good guy who wants to help out. this is my truth. mario is not Crisp Rat. mario is a nice older man and i stand by this. i love you mario mario.

[andreabandrea]

an 18-wheeler died on the side of the highway the other day. a pack of scavenging motorcycles was eating its carcass. one of them growled at me

[andreabandrea]

Child walking into animal shelter and walking out with a single ant on a leash

[andreabandrea]

i agree completely

also i drinked you

we NEED more fictional women who are losers, burnouts, pathetic, etc.

[andreabandrea]

man. do NOT deliver doordash to a gnome. i got lost in the whimsical forest for 27 fucking days solving musical riddles and matching colored mushrooms and shit and i didnt even get a tip

[andreabandrea]

i havent been able to stop thinking about this post ever since i saw it a few years ago. i couldn't stop thinking about how i would Ace Attorney-ify this otherwise average man into one of the series' over-the-top witnesses.

i'd like to introduce you to Mr. Drinkwater, minor witness in the refreshing case "Drink to the Turnabout". (With apologies to the real Andrew Drinkwater, if he or anyone who knows him in real life ever sees this).

in this case, Phoenix & friends must solve the mystery behind a drowning at the Water Research Centre, in which foul play is suspected and for which an innocent person was arrested. Mr. Drinkwater claims to have seen the whole thing.

The notes read:

Head designed to look like a water droplet

Hair designed to look like a comb-over and a 'wave'

Glasses turned fishbowl shaped

Water droplet-like nose

Coat pocket looks like sailboat

When nervous:

Hair 'droops'

Sweats a comical amount

Mouth gets squiggly

When angry:

Hair gets spiky like a lightning bolt

Tears of anger in the corners of his eyes

When shocked:

Spit take [Editor's note: after a while, I think the Judge is like "can we get a mop in here? A towel, maybe?"]

Breakdown:

Huge spit take [Editors note: straight up into the air] that looks like a fountain.

Crying comically-drawn tears.

'Dries out' into a raisin afterward.

Post-breakdown:

Mr Drinkwater's wrinkles are accentuated and his face shape has changed to make him look more 'dried out.'

His comb over falls apart, revealing he's bald. [Editor's note: I don't know if the real Andrew Drinkwater is bald or not. This isn't about the 'real' man himself, though.]

Mr. Drinkwater is mistaken about what he saw and ultimately lies on the stand to protect the deep secrets of the Water Research Centre. He's seen again at the end of the case, congratulating Phoenix & co on their victory. He offers to buy everyone a round of drinks on him-- drinks of water, that is.

Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

[andreabandrea]

I absolutely don't mean this in a bad way, but I think a lot about how Pokemon is a power fantasy for kids. And I know this is obvious because it's a game for children, but let me ramble.

Think about it: you can go wherever you want, knowing you're safe because your Pokemon will protect you. In the later games, you can dress however you want and express yourself freely. You can connect with nature and communities of friendly kids and adults around you. You can make a meaningful, positive impact on the world. You can stand toe-to-toe with adults who, in real life, would ignore or even belittle you because you're just a kid. (And, of course, you have superpowered pets that love you.)

I think about how in the original games, Brock and Misty are presented as kids/young teens and become friends with Ash. But, Lt. Surge presents a difficulty spike-- if you chose Bulbasaur, you can easily sweep the first two gyms with it, but now you don't have a supereffective match up unless you plan more. I think it's meaningful, then, that Lt. Surge is portrayed a big, scary adult man and military to boot. In the anime, he's presented as being condescending and intimidating toward Ash. But, you as the player are able to overcome this intimidating man through the power of your Pokemon. The same can be said for people like Team Rocket and Giovanni-- Giovanni's original sprite in Red & Blue makes it look like he's looming over you, sneering at you.

It can easily be forgotten by adult fans, but you're seeing this world through the perspective of a child. Giovanni looming over you represents how it feels to be a child, powerless, and face an adult who's cruel to you. But you defeat him at every match up.

Satoshi Tajiri would go on to say that Pokemon was inspired by his childhood, in which he'd go out and collect bugs. Miyamoto would say that the first Zelda game was inspired by his childhood in which he'd explore the local area and caves and so on.

It makes me sad to think that, as the world becomes more modern, more urbanized, and (as parents tend to see it, at least) more unsafe, this childhood that inspired these classic games become further out of reach for kids. When I was growing up, I lived in a suburb full of concrete. I couldn't walk anywhere, and even if I could, my mother was too anxious to let me just go around unsupervised.

This is why getting the bike is such a big moment in Pokemon-- you can go so much farther as a kid on a bike! But, I also could only ride my bike up and down my boring street before running into a major street full of cars going 50 MPH that would have murdered me instantly.

This isn't a doom post. I still believe that we can repair the damage that capitalism and cars have done to the world. But, I think that in times like this, it's more important than ever for kids to have access to these power fantasies, these escapes from a world that they have no ability to fix, but still suffer from regardless.

Ironically, I think that when I play Pokemon now, I play it to feel smaller rather than to feel bigger, the opposite of how I played it as a kid. Now, it's comforting to escape from work and stress into a world in which your only concerns are walking to the next town, catching a new Pokemon, and maybe fighting a gym leader. The same can be said of any piece of media that someone is nostalgic for, but I think Pokemon feeds into it well because its design is so baked in the experience of being a child.

When I'm playing Pokemon, especially when replaying an old game, I still remember things like only saving in Pokemon centers so that my character could sleep there in a nice building, or imagining them setting up camp if I had to save and quit on a route. If I had time, I would feed my Pokemon some Pokeblocks or etc. at my little 'camp' so they wouldn't be hungry (which is why I felt like the cooking and camping systems from SwSh were so real for me, haha).

I don't think that there's a 'wrong' way to play Pokemon-- I know people enjoy competitive Pokemon, and strict challenge runs, and stuff. And I can enjoy that, too! But, for me, Pokemon is about childhood, you know?

[andreabandrea]

[andreabandrea]

The AndreaBandrea UTY post

I need some place to put my Undertale Yellow (UTY for short) thoughts & criticism, and this is my blog, so I might as well put them here. If you don't want to see constructive criticism about Undertale Yellow, don't click below the readmore!

Pretty much everyone I talk to really likes this game, and honestly, I'm really sad that I don't like it more. I like some parts of it quite a bit! But I have mixed feelings about other parts-- I think the writing and characterization could have been a little more impactful than they were, and I’ll be discussing that here. I don’t want to just rag on this game without expressing suggestions and parts that I do like in more detail, so those will be covered as well. 

I also want to add a disclaimer that I don't have negative feelings towards the development team or fans of this game in the slightest. I have nothing but respect for the creators of Undertale Yellow. This project was obviously a massive undertaking with a lot of love behind it, and I'm glad to see that it's found success and a community of people who do enjoy it. 

The reason I’m writing this post is that, again, I liked parts of this game and wish I enjoyed it more. If I didn’t like it at all, I just wouldn’t engage with it at all anymore. I also haven’t really seen any other people expressing constructive criticism on the game’s writing, so it’s felt more important for me to express these thoughts, be heard, and see if others feel the same way. 

The Good

I'll start off with the things I like. The art, the animation, and the music are all fantastic. I was very impressed by the battle backgrounds and the little touches, like the way Clover runs. Clover doing things like reaching for other’s hands, giving fistbumps, drawing their weapon, changing their expression at times-- they feel very dynamic and fun to play as.

The music is really catchy and fun. I love the iterations on the battle theme-- Snowdin’s battle theme having bells, for example. 

I also had fun with most of the fights in the game! I liked the unique mechanics that came into play (e.g. the lasso in North Star's battle). I think that changing the way Clover attacks compared to Frisk feels organic and fun. 

I also love the mail system. Ever since you could deliver and receive letters in Paper Mario 64, I’ve been hooked on mail as a storytelling system in video games. I think the letters you receive are interesting and clever, and it’s a great way to keep past characters relevant in lieu of a cell phone. 

I’m going to be discussing criticism of the characters later, so I’m going to take a moment to talk a little about things I liked about them. I really like Martlet’s optimism and belief in humans. Starlo made me laugh quite a few times and the Feisty Five have a great dynamic with each other. A lot of the background characters in the game are fun-- I like the one who serves you at the Honeydew Resort. The fact that you can go back to these vendors later on and get four new topics to talk about is fantastic and makes the world feel a lot more alive. 

The Slightly Less-Good (and more disclaimers)

The writing is where the game falls short for me-- and it’s sad for me, because the writing is the heart of Undertale. I don’t think that the writing is bad by any means! I like the characters and story well enough, but- again- I just wish that I liked them more. I’ll try to incorporate suggestions so this isn’t just a total downer post without anything backing it up. 

I want to express something about the ‘suggestions’ that I’ll be offering after the criticism. I know that Undertale Yellow  is now out, and the team isn’t going to go back and change it now, and that’s totally fine. I don’t want to make it sound as if the team should change Undertale Yellow just because I have some reservations about it. I’m just one fan out of many. In the very off chance that a member of the Undertale Yellow development team is reading this--

First of all, hi! 

Second of all, I know that changing major parts of Undertale Yellow at this point is very unrealistic, and I wouldn’t want you to. If anything, I’m honored you’re reading my ramblings at all. I’d be touched if you’d be willing to take some of my words to heart as you move onto your next creative projects.

The reason I’m including suggestions, therefore, isn’t because I think that the team should or must make these changes, but because I don’t want to just sound excessively negative about this game without offering a little feedback. 

I don’t presume that my criticism and suggestions are objectively correct or better than what the Undertale Yellow team created. This is my personal blog, and these are my personal rambly thoughts about Undertale Yellow. The reason I’m including so many disclaimers is because I’ve gotten into discourse before due to poorly thought-out posts about Undertale, and I hope to avoid that this time. I don’t want to just not post something on my own blog, though, because I’m afraid it could be misconstrued or possibly upset somebody. So, I’m trying to discuss this as carefully as I can. 

As one final disclaimer, I'll say that I know that it was more likely than not that I'd be at least a little disappointed by Undertale Yellow. The original Undertale was a very important game for me, and very little could reach that standard. (I think this is one reason why Toby decided to do Deltarune, a sort of AU/spinoff rather than a full-on "Undertale 2", and I respect that decision.) 

I also think that quite a bit of my criticism is subjective-- several of the characters didn't fully click with me and several of the jokes just didn't land for me, personally. More people than you might think just didn’t connect with the regular Undertale, either. I’ll be talking a little about my subjective opinion on characters, but I’ll try to explain why I feel the way I do rather than just say, “XYZ character sucks because they’re lame, moving on.” 

With that said, the post. I’ll be addressing my criticisms from smallest to largest. To begin, I’ll recap the plot of UTY to better analyze aspects that I do and don’t quite like. Spoilers abound.

Undertale Yellow Plot Recap!!!!

The central story of UTY, to my memory and understanding, is as follows:

In the past, a fallen human being went on a rampage in Snowdin and hurt Kanako, the daughter of Chujin, a former royal scientist and monster who happens to be a boss monster. Dalv, an unrelated monster, was also hurt in this incident and sealed himself away in the Ruins in a self-imposed isolation. Chujin’s family (presumably him or Kanako, but not Ceroba, as she doesn’t recognize Dalv) felt bad about this and left him corn from Starlo’s farm as a gift. But, when Chujin died, the corn gifts stopped coming. 

Stepping back a bit, after the incident, Chujin developed a deep hatred for humanity. He invented a security robot called Axis and told it to go kill the human. Axis did this (and we will return to this later). Chujin kept the soul (at least, for a time) to experiment on.

At some point in this, Axis failed to impress Asgore and Chujin was fired as the royal scientist. At some point as well, he began to teach Martlet how to build puzzles. Martlet got a job in the royal guard and Chujin disapproved because humans are very dangerous.  

Due to experimenting on his own boss monster soul in an attempt to find a way to turn regular monsters into boss monsters so that monsterkind could potentially stand up to the threat of humanity, Chujin wound up very ill and then passed away. He left video tapes to his wife, Ceroba, asking her to finish his research. However, he asked her to leave Kanako out of this so she could live a normal life. 

Ceroba agreed to finish this research, but Kanako found out about it and asked to be experimented on because she, like her father, has the power of a boss monster. Ceroba agreed to experiment on her, which injured Kanako and caused her to ‘fall down’. Ceroba sent the near-death Kanako to Dr. Alphys, the new royal scientist, who was collecting ‘fallen down’ monsters for her own experiments with determination. 

Plot summary over. I’ll take a closer look at some of these aspects going forward.

UTY Plot Criticism

I don’t feel like this is a bad story, necessarily. With that said, it doesn’t feel quite as tied together as Undertale’s story does, and I think certain aspects don’t land. 

First, I feel that the majority of the plot elements about Chujin & Kanako get dumped on you at the last minute. You might be thinking that the story about Chara & Asriel is also dumped on you at the last minute-- and to an extent, this is true. You do get a massive amount of information regarding their story near the end of the game, in the True Lab.

However, Chara & Asriel's story is a massive part of the narrative from the very beginning. You meet 'Asriel' (Flowey) in the very beginning of the game. Toriel is in the Ruins due to the fallout of Chara & Asriel's deaths. Asgore and the monsters are trying to kill Frisk and steal their soul because of this, and the royal guard has taken it up as their mission. Sans is aware of an anomaly that will end everything (implied to be the player), and he would have 'killed Frisk where they stand' had he not made a promise to Toriel. And so on.

I’ll be reviewing criticism of the game’s plot in sections themed around each major character. I will be discussing suggestions about each character in their respective section here, as I discuss things I didn’t quite like about each character, my suggestions are intrinsically tied to why I didn’t quite like them. 

Dalv

The connections between characters and the Chujin & Kanako plot feel a bit tenuous to me. Similarly to Toriel, Dalv is in a self-imposed isolation in the Ruins due to a major incident in his past. He fears humans due to the attack he suffered in Snowdin, and he suffers loneliness  after losing his friend (who left him corn). When he sees Clover, he wonders if this is “some sort of haunting” (implying he knows that the human who attacked him was killed). 

In the pacifist route, Clover can prove to Dalv that not all humans are evil and Dalv can move out and learn how to trust people again. This becomes a recurring theme-- Clover, pure of heart, proving to monsters that humanity isn’t that bad after all. 

However, Dalv then disappears from the story. His motivation is to basically be left alone, but once you prove to him that humanity isn’t so bad, his role in the story is essentially complete.

I feel that, by comparison, Toriel’s motivation is more active-- to protect humans who fall down from Asgore. It’s this motivation that drives her to return at the end of the true pacifist route and ultimately make the true ending of Undertale possible.

Dalv’s passiveness makes him a weaker character to me. Now that you’ve proven that you’re his friend and humanity isn’t so bad, I would have liked to have seen him take an active motivation to protect his friend or help them in some way. We don’t have to copy Undertale beat for beat and have him dramatically save Clover from Asgore or anything, but it would have been nice to see him vouch for Clover in some way at some point. 

Now, for the final time, I know that UTY is released and major changes aren’t likely. Some of my suggestions are “I would have liked to see this, but this change would require redoing the entire game,” which I don’t think should or could be done at this stage. This is just daydreaming and- if I’m praising myself highly- potential considerations for the devs’ future works (and the works of any other creatives who are reading this). 

With this proposed major change to Dalv’s character out of the way, I’ll suggest instead the most minimal possible change that I would like to see, so my suggestions don’t feel entirely like just daydreaming. 

I really like how Dalv sends Clover a letter about his moving out to Snowdin. This is active of him in terms of motivation-- Clover is his friend and he wants to keep in touch with his friend. I’d be absolutely thrilled to see a little bit of extra dialogue for him in an update. After you go back to Snowdin and see him, I think the dialogue he already has is totally fine! But, I’d be really happy if he’d take initiative and tell Clover a little more about his experience with the past human, or invite them to rely on him, too. 

Martlet

Martlet felt… a bit restrained in terms of her writing, to me. I think that one aspect of Undertale’s writing is that it’s not afraid to go over the top. Papyrus isn’t just silly, he wears a costume every day and cartoon eyes pop out of his head when he’s surprised. Undyne isn’t just determined, she aspires to be a badass anime heroine. I like Martlet just fine, but she never had a moment where she really stood out to me in this way. 

Martlet’s defining traits are that she likes puzzles, she loves reading and abiding by the rules of the royal guard, and she believes in humanity and wants to help Clover. As I said before, I really like this optimism and belief. I’d like to see more of it. 

Near the end of the true pacifist route, Martlet says that she was taught in the royal guard that humans are scary, but Clover proved to her that humans are kind. This felt very abrupt to me at the time-- we know that Chujin disapproved of her joining the royal guard due to his own trauma, but Martlet had no personal involvement in the last human’s violent actions. 

Martlet doesn’t seem to have any reason to dislike humans more than any other monster. We learn in her diary that she essentially joined the royal guard out of a desire to help people and build puzzles, and also because she needed a job. 

If she’s just supposed to be a representative of the average monster and their feelings toward humanity, and her growing to like Clover is meant to represent how all of monsterkind could grow to like humankind, that would be one thing-- but I think that she specifically is meant to represent a person who wholeheartedly believes that humans can be good and that humans and monsters can live in harmony. In the no mercy route, she repeatedly pleads to Clover to do better, that they don’t have to act this way, that she wants to help them. That’s not the response of the average monster, who fights Clover or tries to flee from them. 

I believe the intention is that Chujin & Martlet represent either end of an ideology axis (no pun intended). Chujin believes all humans are evil no matter what, but Martlet believes that humans can choose to be good. But why does she choose to believe in humans other than a sense of personal optimism? 

I would have liked to have seen some defining event that made Martlet choose to believe in the goodness of humanity. I would have liked to have her being kind and optimistic to a fault be more of a defining trait-- to have that go over the top in an Undertale-style way. A lot of her interactions with other characters just personally weren’t very memorable to me. 

Martlet spends a lot of the game sidelined. She loses you in the Mines. She gets thrown in jail in the Wild East. She has to go back to Snowdin once you're freed. Yes, she's there for you in the true pacifist route, but she's otherwise pretty absent through the neutral/true pacifist routes.

I recognize that the main characters in Undertale can be absent after you leave their respective sections of the game. However, you're able to call Papyrus & Undyne as much as you want, and you get a major hang-out (or “date”) with each of them and Alphys which gives time to expand on their backstory and character arc. Martlet doesn't get that. We even get a little bit of time to hang out with Dalv after we become his friend, but Martlet shoves us on a boat and hurries us to the next area as soon as we beat her. And sure, we get to talk to her on the boat, but it’s just a bit of silly dialogue-- it doesn’t really expand on her character. It feels like a missed opportunity. 

So, yes, my major suggestion on her would be to zoom in more on her belief in you and let her be a liiiiitle sillier and more over the top, and give more opportunity for Clover to hang out with her. 

At this stage, however? In this proposed minor ‘dialogue update’, I’d be really excited to see a little something more from her. Maybe a letter? She does send you one, but only in the neutral route to tell you to meet her on top of the apartments. It would be a good opportunity to either let her be silly or explain a bit about when she came to want to believe in humans-- or both, ideally. 

Starlo

I honestly have very little to say on Starlo. He seems to be the fan favorite, and I did find his section fun! Ultimately, though, he's just kind of… there? I mean, he's on the periphery of Ceroba's (and Chujin and Kanako’s) story because he's her childhood friend (and his family grew the corn that Chujin gives to Dalv), and yes, he later on reminds her that she can still choose to be a better person because he also almost killed Clover! However, every monster in the game almost killed Clover.

There’s nothing wrong with having a silly character who wears a costume and isn’t a major player in the plot. I feel like Starlo is similar to Papyrus in this way. But Papyrus isn’t just a goofball, he’s the monster in Undertale who believes unerringly in Frisk & the player’s ability to do better because he firmly believes that you can make anything happen if you just try. This belief helps elevate Papyrus from comic relief to an actual rounded character. 

I don’t feel like Starlo has any sort of strong conviction like that. We do learn that he wants to bring hope to the Underground by roleplaying as a sheriff in the Wild East town, giving them a slice of (supposed) surface life. I think this is fine, but I’d like to see a bit more of it. In the no mercy route, he does bravely stand against you because he’s a sheriff and it’s his job to bring justice to murderers like Clover. 

My expectation when I first met him, a fellow cowboy (gender-neutral), was that he’d have his own ideas about justice. I expected that he would clash with Clover about these ideals, and neither of them would be quite right or wrong-- and this would prove that justice can’t be measured mathematically, and one outcome can’t be applied to all situations. 

But, he’s not at all bad the way he is. He has a lot of fans, after all. The minor change I’d suggest now that the game is out is that I’d be interested in learning why the cowboy aesthetic specifically appealed to him. Maybe a diary in his room explaining that Westerns are the epitome of ‘justice’ to him? I’d like to see a peek into the motivation that transformed an ordinary farm boy into someone who could bravely stand against a murderous human. 

Ceroba

I’ll be honest. I want to like Ceroba, but I don’t.

I understand that there's an attempt to mirror Asgore in that the war against humanity, in general, has taken Ceroba's partner and her child from her-- and ultimately, Clover forgives her and helps her learn how to move on. It's about letting go, just like Undertale. I get that. But Ceroba’s story doesn't land for me, personally. In order to talk about Ceroba, I need to talk about her husband, Chujin, because Ceroba spends so much of the story acting out Chujin's will. 

Whereas monsters in Undertale do attempt to kill Frisk and steal their soul, and Asgore has killed other children before, it's framed in a very 'video game' violence sort of way (again, Undertale has these meta elements). Ultimately, in the True Pacifist route, none of Frisk's deaths have stuck, and Asgore's actions- while reprehensible- allowed for Asriel to break the barrier once and for all.

Chujin, in the video tapes he leaves for Ceroba, implies that Axis’s murder of the human- presumably a child, like Clover and Frisk- was very violent and bloody. It feels a tiny step beyond the 'video game violence' aspect, for me. While it’s shown that Chujin regrets this, it still doesn’t change the way that this violence is expressed in the game. 

Instead of giving the human’s soul right to Asgore to bring monsterkind closer to freedom, Chujin- who has already been fired by Asgore, I should add- chooses to keep the soul and experiment with it.

This is very selfish, even though he has good intentions. He’s told nobody else about his experiments with his soul at this point- not even his wife- and Asgore has told him to cease all activities as the royal scientist. 

While monsters do want Frisk's soul for their own selfish reasons, they notably do not butcher them violently, succeed in this, and still try to get painted with the same quirky and fun brush that the other characters get. 

After Chujin dies, he leaves detailed instructions for his wife to continue his work-- and although he says "don't involve Kanako", he leaves her all the tools she would need to experiment on Kanako, and notably, no other way to finish his work except to experiment on Kanako.

As I said, Kanako finds out about this and asks to be experimented on. And while she does give consent, she is a child. I cannot stress this enough-- she is a child who just lost her father and is still wracked by grief. Kanako is a child who cannot possibly know what she is consenting to. 

Ceroba chooses to experiment on Kanako and more or less kills her. And then she chooses to send her 'fallen down' daughter to Alphys's experiment, despite the fact that Kanako presumably has some sort of trace of human soul/determination left in her-- which could have compromised Alphys's work as well.

Let's return to how I said that Ceroba is a mirror for Asgore. She's made so many mistakes and it's cost her her family and she can't stop now or it will all be for nothing. She's done horrible things, just like Asgore.

But the difference is that Asgore is the king of monsterkind. Asgore has no desire to kill human beings. He declared war on humanity in a fit of anger and grief, but the Underground had lost hope due to the loss of Chara & Asriel. Believing that Asgore could gather seven human souls and free them all brought hope back to the Underground.

His actions, while wrong, are selfless-- and much less explicitly violent and more 'cartoon violence'-like. Chujin & Ceroba have the well-being of monsterkind as their own pure intentions, but their actions are far more selfish and violent. Axis, Chujin’s creation, massacred a human being. Yet we're still expected to find them silly and fun and relatable-- it just feels unusual.

I’m not someone who hates nuance or morally gray characters. One reason I’m so sad that I don’t quite like Ceroba is that I love morally gray women. It’s just that we’re not allowed to really dislike Chujin or Ceroba for what they’ve done, and instead we’re supposed to see Ceroba- and Axis- as silly and relatable like the rest of the characters. 

Immediately after Ceroba’s boss battle, instead of processing what just happened to a greater extent, Clover chooses to sacrifice their soul for monsterkind. 

I understand that the intention is that Ceroba's grief and Chujin's desperation to protect monsters from humanity contributed to Clover's decision to sacrifice their soul. However, the idea is- to me- abrupt. Ultimately, too, Clover's decision is just as much about how much they love their friends (and how it's impossible for them to hide out in the Underground forever) as it is about Ceroba and her family.

Chara & Asriel’s deaths, Asgore’s war on humanity, the war of humans and monsters-- these elements impact every part of Frisk’s journey. But Chujin and Ceroba’s actions, while impactful on Martlet and Dalv to varying extents, are only part of Clover’s journey. And Chujin and Ceroba did awful things for this comparatively minor impact on the plot. 

EDIT: Further analysis about how Ceroba doesn't have a lot of agency and spends a lot of the plot just acting out Chujin's will, as well as the inconsistency in her characterization (and feelings about sacrificing Clover and the well-being of Kanako), with input from @carlyraejepsans. Thank you!

I would have liked to have seen a bit more from Ceroba without any influence from Chujin- maybe an interaction explaining her relationship with Martlet and an additional conversation about Martlet’s nearly unwavering belief in humans vs Ceroba’s inherited grudge against humanity- but I don’t know where this would fit in. Adding more time for Clover to process Ceroba’s boss fight before sacrificing their soul might throw off the pacing. 

In general, though, Ceroba's boss fight- while flashy and fun- ultimately feels pointless with how little she learns from it and how quickly she changes her stance on using Clover's soul for the benefit of monsterkind, and what will happen to monsters after they break the barrier. To quote @carlyraejepsans in the ask linked above:

In addition, it's like the writing didn't want to commit to her delusions and little character development. She feels that her daughter is alive and thinks she can save her—wait no that was a lie—wait it wasn't. The moment she's defeated she goes "Agh, what was I thinking!" out loud (which is already a questionable writing choice imo but i digress), and recognizes that sacrificing Clover for her plans is horrible... and then 5 seconds later Clover chooses to sacrifice themself to break the barrier and whoops nevermind she's suddenly the one getting the others onboard with the idea... wait. didn't she say she was making the serum because the humans would've only slaughtered them again if they broke the barrier? oh wait wasn't that also chujin again? whoops.

I would have felt better if there were more room to view Chujin and Ceroba in a critical light (and time to view Ceroba outside of just being a mom and wife). I can’t think of any ‘minor’ suggestion that wouldn’t require a lot of editing. 

Axis…

And... okay. Let's talk about Axis real quick.

I want to give the dev team the benefit of the doubt, but I need to point out that this security robot's name is "Axis 014." If you don't know what I mean by pointing this out, I'll just say that both of these terms are nazi dog whistles and allow you to look up the specifics.

I recognize that, by this point, it’s too late to change his name. I’d at least be grateful if the team would acknowledge this and confirm that they aren’t nazis. 

Axis’s name makes his actions far worse in retrospect. He, as a security robot wants to kill a child, but he isn't able to anymore because his programming has changed. So, as a legal loophole, he forces them to hold 'a weapon' (a trash can lid) so he can justifiably kill them. This is the same robot that brutalized and murdered a human being in the past at Chujin's behest.

It feels tone deaf and ultimately the one thing I’d just outright call bad about UTY. I don’t think it was intentionally done this way, but I don't like that we're supposed to find this nazi-aesthetic police brutality robot "quirky and relatable" like the Undertale cast. In the true pacifist ending, he falls in love with a robot made out of a trash can and his eyes turn into cartoon hearts and etc. It’s even more jarring than viewing Chujin & Ceroba in a fun/relatable way. 

In the no mercy route, Axis will defend himself and claim that his programming forced him to kill the human and he didn't want to. This "just following orders" defense feels weak to me as well, personally. Axis clearly delights in harming humans, going out of his way to try to kill Clover. But also, Axis spends a significant amount of the game displaying a very similar amount of free will to the other characters. He’s not just a janitor robot that sweeps back and forth. 

He’s a nearly sentient being-- and the fact that there are these nearly sentient robots makes Alphys’s accomplishment of creating “a robot with a soul” (at least, so she claims-- Mettaton is only the ghost in a machine) much less impactful to me, personally. Yes, Asgore thinks that Chujin failed in creating a sentient robot, and so it’s impressive that Alphys supposedly did it. But I don’t know why Asgore wouldn’t be more skeptical of Alphys’s accomplishment after Chujin failed more than eight times and set fire to his flowers. 

I think that Axis is ultimately a missed opportunity to make a really villainous character. This concept that he disobeys his programming- used as sort of a parallel for law, as a security robot- to attack Clover could have been explored to further the ‘justice’ theme. He doesn’t write his programming (the laws), he just carries it out (violently enforces the laws). 

The ‘minor’ suggestion I’d make, though, is to just acknowledge the name. 

Undertale & Meta Elements

Now, we’ll be addressing my largest criticisms-- the omission of meta elements and the way Flowey is written.

Undertale Yellow never quite stopped feeling like a fan game to me. And it is, of course-- but I think that it feels as if it tries so hard to be Undertale (in the writing style, the humor, etc) that it fails to forge an identity of its own, and that holds it back from being just a fangame to a fangame that succeeds in expanding on the original creative work. 

At the same time, although UTY tries to feel like Undertale, I don’t think it captures certain elements that make Undertale be Undertale. 

Whereas Undertale was ultimately about video games as a medium and the normalization of violence in them, UTY doesn’t have this level of metatextual commentary. UTY does have a running theme of 'justice'-- and I don’t think this is bad! After all, if Undertale already said all there was to say about video games and violence, why retread that path? I respect that UTY knows its limits and simply focuses on justice as a concept instead.

At the same time, Undertale isn’t just an RPG about mercy-- it’s an RPG about RPGs. The fact that you can talk to and spare enemies isn’t just a quirk of the game, it’s what the game is about. This is one thing that makes Undertale great that UTY doesn’t focus on.  

UTY doesn’t completely ignore these elements, of course. Flowey takes over resetting for you, and you do have three distinct paths based on whether or not you kill enemies-- the ‘true pacifist’ path, the ‘neutral’ path, and the ‘no mercy’ path (I will not be calling it the ‘genocide’ route, especially in light of recent world events). Through whether or not you choose to kill enemies, the theme of ‘justice’ is explored-- who is Clover seeking justice for? In the true pacifist route, Clover seeks justice for the monsters, while in the no mercy route, Clover seeks justice for the fallen humans before them. 

However, Flowey taking over the mechanics of saving and resetting for you makes concept of ‘the player’ obsolete. I recognize that not everyone in the Undertale/Deltarune fandom quite enjoys the concept of 'the player' and the meta elements of these games due to the fact that there can be implications that playing Deltarune (as an example, which ups the meta elements quite a bit) can actively hurt Kris and make their world a worse place. However, Deltarune isn’t a complete work and we don’t know this for certain. Additionally, I feel as if at least acknowledging Toby's intentions are important to analyzing the work, no matter what one's personal feelings are about them.

The Importance of the Player

The presence of you, the player, is important in Undertale. Frisk is a subversion of the 'blank slate protagonist' trope. You think that you're able to name them and control them, but in the True Pacifist route, Frisk begins to act on their own (they walk slowly in some parts of the True Lab because they're presumably afraid, etc). In the end, you realize that Frisk is their own person with their own name, and you as the player have to let go-- when Frisk & the monsters go to the surface, Flowey (a mirror of the player themselves) urges you to let them go. Don't treat this as a game anymore-- don't replay and wring out any last drops of content you can. You enjoyed it, now move on.

But many players want to see the No Mercy route because it’s the last thing they haven’t done in the game, and they don’t want to let go. And that's where the role of you, the player, becomes undeniable in the game's story. What is the No Mercy route except playing a 'typical' RPG in the way it's meant to be played? You grind to become stronger, killing every enemy that stands in your way. And when you've killed all the monsters and become as strong as you can be, you've won.

Many players didn't do this because they hate the characters in Undertale and want to hurt them-- if they hate them, they likely just wouldn't play the game. Many players did it because they like the characters in Undertale, and wanted to see what would happen. They couldn't stop playing. And this is exactly what Sans means in his dialogue during his boss battle-- to paraphrase, "you think that because you can, that means you have to."

This is one of the ways that Flowey is a mirror of the player. Flowey didn't start killing out of malicious intent, but because he had become so bored and isolated that he just "had to see what happens".

Chara's role at the very end of the No Mercy route is to call you out directly for this. They tell you that their power was yours. Their words were very misconstrued by fans for a long time, and they themselves wound up as a scapegoat for the No Mercy route-- but ultimately, there's no reason for Chara or Frisk to kill every monster in the Underground. The only reason is because of you, personally. You want to see what would happen. You want to grind and play it like a typical RPG.

They call you out for this if you don't want to delete the game world at the end. Why go back to that world that you've already destroyed? Why play nice with the monsters that you just massacred because you can?

Why am I talking about this at such length? Because I believe that ‘the player’ and how they interact with the world of Undertale is important. Characters lampshade the UI and battle mechanics often-- Flowey talking about the world as a game and ‘saving’ and ‘loading’, Papyrus telling you to “press C to open the dating HUD”, Sans explaining ‘LV’ and ‘EXP’, and so on.

This is my personal opinion, and I recognize this is very nitpicky, but I feel that not acknowledging this or adding to these meta elements in some way makes UTY weaker for me. 

Flowey’s Role in UTY

Flowey essentially saves and resets for you because he's bored, and he wants to use Clover as a tool to access Asgore’s five stored human souls. His role as a mirror for the player becomes him essentially just acting as a stand-in for the player. While this in itself can invite self-reflection, I think that the execution of his role is a little awkward. 

We learn at the end of the neutral route that Flowey has already reset the timeline hundreds of times by the time we first start playing the game. According to him, Clover always ends up at a dead end (they choose to stay in the Underground for the rest of their life) or they die (and they can’t reset of their own power). Thus, Flowey chose to set Clover on an alternate path by sabotaging a lever in the Ruins, which made them fall into the Dark Ruins and meet Dalv.

Flowey then tries to kill Clover and absorb their soul because they, again, hit a dead end. Yet he gives up on it after a while because Clover won’t stop fighting back, and he thinks he can just reset and try again anyway. 

At the end of the true pacifist route, Clover instead opts to sacrifice their soul willingly to Asgore & monsterkind. Flowey comments that he could just reset (and you still can, if you want to play again), but Clover “earned their rest” and he calls them a friend. 

This progression from “Clover is a tool that Flowey is using to access the 5 human souls” to “Clover is a friend and Flowey willingly lets them die and stay dead” feels undeserved and underdeveloped to me. 

"But, Andrea," you might say, "Flowey went from trying to kill Frisk as Omega/Photoshop Flowey to hugging Frisk as Asriel really quickly too!"

Yes, but in that short time, Frisk and Flowey/Asriel had a Whole Thing where Frisk 'saved' him like everyone else and he learned he needs to let go, too. It was a short time, but it was a poignant time. By contrast, Flowey is pretty much absent throughout most of UTY's true pacifist route. Sure, you could easily say that he just got bored of Clover and gave up-- but that, too, doesn’t feel quite right to me. 

I really hate to say this, but I feel that Flowey’s writing in UTY cheapens the original Undertale for me, which is why this is one of my major criticisms of the game. 

Flowey's entire character arc in Undertale is about how he was stuck with the same places and same people for an endless amount of resets. In my opinion, the limited amount of places and characters for him to interact with in Undertale only adds to how trapped he is (and the Underground being so small really strengthens the concept of "there's overpopulation and the monsters are running out of time to find a solution/earn their freedom" that we see in the game, but I digress).

So when something finally changes and he meets Frisk, it's deeply impactful to him. Finally, someone new to play with! Finally, potential for change! Even though Flowey admits that, even if Chara came back, there's a great chance that he couldn't really love them due to his lack of soul, just experiencing something new for the first time in ages is as close to love as he can possibly get. So Flowey:

Starts to believe that Frisk is Chara, this person he ‘loves’ or wants to love, or some manifestation of Chara. 

Refuses to let Frisk go, even if that means- when Asriel has the power of seven human souls- just resetting the Undertale timeline over and over instead of going to the surface or doing anything else.

For Flowey to have gone through everything that he does in UTY- all these new places, all these new people, Clover included- weakens this, in my opinion. And sure, there's very heavily implied to be lots of places that Frisk doesn't explore and people they don't meet-- 99% of New Home and its residents, for instance. But Clover themselves is the real problem for me.

No matter how many times Flowey reset with Clover, I really struggle to believe that he would get bored of a human being that easily. He even said that Clover's actions and choices would sometimes change from reset to reset, and he only recently learned how dramatically he could alter their path by sabotaging that lever in the Ruins. Clover isn't a static being-- and even if they were, they're at least a new static being.

And although we learn in the neutral route that Flowey can't really absorb Clover's soul because they fight back too much, I can't believe that would stop Flowey so easily. What about at the end of the pacifist route, where Clover has given it up willingly and it's being transported in a little jar? Clover’s body is separated from the soul, now-- could Clover still fight back?

Or, what about if Flowey tried to kill them as soon as they entered the Ruins? Or, what if Flowey played nice the entire route and then at the end tried to convince Clover that if they sacrificed their soul, he would take it to Asgore for them? With access to full control of the timeline, I don't think Flowey would give up on this. We learn in Undertale how painful it is for him to be soulless and how desperate he is to access power so that things will change.

For Flowey to acknowledge Clover as a 'friend'- maybe even a true person, not just a compilation of dialogue- suggests character growth. It suggests remorse for his resets that he isn't capable of having and doesn't have until the events of Undertale. I just don't feel like it’s earned. 

Flowey is, of course, an unreliable narrator. 

At the end of the no mercy route of UTY, Flowey expresses that he never saw Clover as a friend-- he only enjoyed watching them die over and over again. It should be noted that this was said while under extreme duress (Clover is LV 20 by this point and has killed everyone save for Asgore), and this route isn’t canon in the way that the neutral and pacifist routes are. 

With that said, if we agree that Flowey can’t feel love as a soulless being, then I could argue that this is about as much of a ‘friend’ as anyone could be. This is how he wanted to keep Frisk (“Chara”, in his mind) for eternity when he had the six human souls + the entirety of monsterkinds’ souls-- just watch them try over and over again, for eternity. 

Why am I contradicting myself? Because, let’s suppose that Flowey doesn’t mean Clover is a ‘friend’ in the traditional sense- that they earned his respect and he cares for them in some way- but Clover is a new toy that he got bored with and gave up on. I feel like this, too, makes Undertale a little weaker. 

If Flowey did have some type of positive regard for Clover, but was willing to let them go, then it feels- to me- like Frisk’s role in his story isn’t that significant. Frisk helped him learn how to let go and move on, but Flowey has already demonstrated being capable of this. The circumstances are different- if Flowey gives up at the end of Undertale’s true pacifist route, it’s over for real, whereas if he gives up at the end of UTY, he can just wait for another human to fall- but I feel like the core feeling is the same. Flowey, by the start of Undertale, doesn’t strike me as someone who’s capable of letting go. 

So, how would I have changed this?

I recognize that- again- Undertale already made these points about video games and violence, and Flowey has his entire character arc in that game. For Flowey to have more of an arc in this game would potentially make this game no longer line up with canon Undertale or weaken Undertale further. And why retread old ground that Undertale already talked about?

I respect the decision to tell a self-contained story, but the meta commentary about video games in Undertale is so significant for me that I personally would have liked to see a bit more of it in Undertale Yellow. I also recognize how much of my criticism of Flowey’s writing in UTY is subjective. It feels unrealistic for me, his arc feels abrupt for me, it makes Undertale less poignant for me. 

A lot of people love his inclusion in this game, and it’s very novel to see Flowey as a friend throughout most of UTY and hear his snarky commentary on demand rather than having him as an enemy who’s absent through most of the game, as he is in Undertale. 

The Flowey Suggestions

First, I’ll be honest. I know this is not and has never been possible, but my easiest solution to the dilemma of Flowey’s lack of a character arc- and the lack of an ability to give him a character arc- would have been to just remove him from UTY. 

I think that Flowey’s inclusion in the story of the yellow soul human and his role saving and loading could have been interesting. It goes against certain story elements implied in Undertale, and popular fan theories-- and I don’t mind that, if something meaningful is done with it. But, I feel as if Flowey’s relationship to Clover isn’t impactful enough to justify including him. 

To clarify on ‘implied story elements’ and ‘popular fan theories’: 

While I might be misremembering, I thought that it was implied in Undertale that Flowey came into being after Asgore had already collected six human souls, and that a significant amount of time had passed since the last human had fallen down. 

I won’t go into it at length because this post is long enough and I, again, am not an Undertale expert. With that said, it’s also implied that all human souls are capable of saving/loading/resetting in the Underground. If you make Frisk tell Asgore that he killed them before, he just nods as if he’s used to it-- and he’s the one character who we know has killed humans before.

Now, how did Asgore successfully kill beings that can just reset the game whenever they die? Well, Sans faces the same dilemma in Undertale’s no mercy route. There’s no way that he can permanently defeat you, the player, who is a real being. Therefore, the way he ‘wins’ is by infuriating you enough with his difficult boss fight until you give up and stop playing Undertale (or, at least, reset and make better choices). 

Think about all the times you’ve played a game, got stuck on a hard boss, and never played it again. While it’s not ‘canon’ to the story- giving up on your copy of Mario doesn’t mean Bowser really wins- functionally, giving up on a game means that the story ends for you. This is how I believe Asgore captured the six human souls, even if they were also capable of resetting like Frisk is-- he fought them until they gave up.

Humans all are said to have great amounts of ‘determination’, not just red soul bearers. We don’t even know what trait the red soul exemplifies. Whatever it is, I don’t think it’s determination itself. 

The bottom line is that I don’t think it would be unrealistic for Clover to be able to save/load/reset on their own, or for Flowey to not exist yet during the time they fell down. 

But, I get it, Flowey was in UTY’s demo that has been out for seven years. He’s in the trailers. He couldn’t be removed at any part of development, and he sure as hell can’t be removed now. 

My second suggestion would have been to zoom in on him, instead. While the prequel is about Clover, the yellow soul human, I would have liked to see it be about Flowey in a significant way. I kept hoping for Clover to have an opportunity to ask Flowey at some point, “why are you helping me, anyway?”.

This is my personal interpretation, but I’ve come to believe that Flowey thinks that the reason he’s stuck as a flower is that it’s a punishment. Because he, as Asriel, refused to fight back, he failed Chara, and now they’re dead. Now he’s stuck as a rinky-dink flower with no soul, he can’t love his former family, and he can’t stop playing this game. 

In the no mercy route of Undertale, Flowey feels very much like he’s trying to appeal to Frisk- the person he believes is Chara- in a way like a younger sibling trying to impress an older sibling. He says he’s impressed by how you killed everyone. He helps solves puzzles so you won’t have to slow down. He brags to you about how he’s also a heartless killer. 

Notably, he talks about his past. He tells ‘Chara’ that he was afraid to start killing, at first. He said he wouldn’t enjoy it, but he just had to know what would happen.

Then, Flowey laughs and says that you (Chara) know how liberating it is to be this way-- to kill people and shape their fates. He ‘recognizes’ Frisk as being actually Chara because of how they killed everyone in the Ruins. 

But we have no indication that Chara was a violent or evil person in their life. I believe that Flowey is partially projecting and partially recognizes Chara because, in the last moments of their life, they were telling him to kill. He always knew that Chara hated humanity and wanted power to better the position of monsterkind. This is why Flowey brags about how he has a plan to get the human souls, and once they do so, they can go to the surface and “finish what [they] started.” 

To Flowey, in my opinion, killing people isn’t just about seeing what happens. It’s about trying to understand and appease Chara and doing what he thinks he should have done all that time ago, as Asriel. 

I bring this up because I think that I would have liked to have seen this be explored in Undertale Yellow. Flowey is still a very misunderstood character today due to being an unreliable narrator. I believe that a lot of Flowey misinterpretations are due to taking him at face value-- hearing him say that he’s an unfeeling, manipulative, patient killer and agreeing with him.

But Flowey contradicts himself at several points. He gives up his “catch these friendliness pellets” trick after you dodging just a few times. These aren’t the makings of a perfect manipulative killer, but an impatient child. That’s who Flowey is at his core-- a child. 

I recognize that, again, if Flowey told all of his tragic backstory to Clover and they became true friends, this wouldn’t fit with canon Undertale and his actions in that game. Flowey and Asriel distance themselves from each other, and it wouldn’t make sense for Flowey to tell this to Clover-- especially if he just views them as a tool to use and play with. 

I think, however, it wouldn’t have been impossible for Clover to have learned this information about Flowey in a way that could still be canon compliant with Undertale itself. Hypothetically, maybe the “hopes and dreams” statue in the UG Apartments near the Core could have sparked intrigue in Flowey. 

Maybe analysis of Flowey could have come up during his neutral route boss fight-- after all, Clover appears to peek into the minds of Ceroba and Martlet during the true pacifist and no mercy run boss fights, respectively. We already get a little of this- Clover has to run through a hallway of flowers in Flowey’s boss fight, and we hear sad and scared dialogue that’s presumably from a past version of Flowey himself. However, it’s not necessarily new and doesn’t quite add to Flowey’s character in my personal opinion.

I feel that including Flowey’s story more in some way would justify having Flowey in the game, and knowing the history of Asriel & Chara could factor into Clover’s decision to give up their soul for the sake of monsterkind. Chara, too, sacrificed themselves willingly, after all. 

I don’t have a ‘realistic suggestion’ that could be implemented with a dialogue update because these suggestions are so vast-- and, ultimately, very personal and subjective. I have very strong feelings about Flowey.

Meta Elements of Undertale 

In Undertale, you’re asked when you should or shouldn’t fight. As a pacifist, you can get through the Ruins without killing anyone. Flowey will then ask you what you would do if you met a relentless killer. Would you betray your morals and fight? Or would you give up and let yourself die?

Undertale is the friendly RPG where nobody has to die. While you have to kill Asgore at least once to do the neutral route, and you do have to fight back against Omega/Photoshop Flowey to end his battle, the game ultimately posits that there never is a good time to fight. You don’t beat Omega Flowey by being stronger than him, you do it by appealing to the souls and allowing them to rebel. You don’t beat God of Hyperdeath Asriel Dreemurr by beating him up, you do it by saving your friends- him included. The game, again, is about an inversion of the necessity of violence in video games to me.

I would have been interested in seeing an exploration of when it is necessary to fight, and this could be done through the lens of ‘justice’. Would Clover fight if it brought them closer to justice (on a pacifist route)? Is it morally correct to kill one person if it saves thousands? 

Sparing someone is always the correct option in Undertale. In that way, the true route is quite linear-- there’s one solution that works for everyone. What if there were situations in UTY in which there is no single correct option that works for everyone? What if Clover were placed in situations in which they had to act as arbiter and decide between two outcomes and what is right? It could have been like how they get forced to solve the trolley problem in the Wild East, but with consequences. 

Adding to putting a ‘twist’ on the elements that Undertale introduces with its combat system-- what if sparing someone ultimately enabled them to keep hurting others? What if fighting to weaken someone was the correct solution for once? These inversions could have built on the meta elements of Undertale, and I think that it would make Clover’s decision to sacrifice themselves to bring justice to monsterkind more poignant to me.

Again, I have no ‘realistic’ suggestion for this in the full release of UTY. I think that the plot about justice alone isn’t bad, but I would have been happy to see it tie into the gameplay a little more. 

Conclusion

Ultimately, I think that UTY tries too hard to be Undertale without iterating on the aspects that made Undertale memorable. The characters feel like they fail to pop or relate to the game’s story in meaningful ways, and to me, the main story isn’t executed as well as it could have been (and far darker than the main Undertale in ways that don’t feel as if they’re handled sensitively). 

I will say, again, that this project is very impressive in scope, and I applaud the dev team for finishing it and releasing it. I recognize that a lot of my distaste is subjective, and creating another Undertale is a fool's errand considering the acclaim that Undertale got. I recognize one final time that my suggestions are just daydreaming, and this game has already found a lot of success-- which I think it deserves.

I tend to criticize a lot of media I like, which might sound contradictory to some, but it makes perfect sense to me. If I don’t like something, I won’t engage with it. I think that the original Undertale has its flaws, too. At the end of the day, I like UTY, but no media is perfect. This is how I think it could have been better, and I hope that I think other creatives who want to make Undertale fanworks (or any creative works, for that matter) will take these thoughts into consideration.

Thanks for reading.

[andreabandrea]

i think all the time about how hard it is to be a kid even in the best case scenarios. like yeah as a kid you have very few responsibilities and youre innocent etc but i think the thing is that adults (at least in the USA) largely do not consider you to be a human.

i remember when i was a kid, my parents were nice to me and supportive and so on-- i didnt have a bad childhood. but there were times where my dad would just take things from me, or interrupt me on the computer/tv, not because i had exceeded screen time or anything but just because "im the dad and im more important so i can do what i want". i remember how powerless i felt when adults would shout at me, especially if it was over something i didnt understand and/or hadnt been taught.

i remember adults laughing in my face sometimes when i was crying or upset, and i think about this when i see those 'toddler/kid freakout' tiktok videos mocking a child's reaction, even if it is for something "stupid" like they dropped their candy or whatever.

even the most well-meaning adults will often write off your pain and negative emotions as 'overreactions', and this goes triple if youre neurodivergent. i had pneumonia as a child and my doctor thought i was just being dramatic.

your input on things is largely seen as worthless. if your parents want to travel the country in a van, but you want to go to school and have friends and have your own bedroom, they'll just pack you up and take you in that van because you're the child and you're their property. i think about this when i see those 'van life' families, and i think about this as i'm reading the Wavewalker book about the girl who was forced to live on her parents' boat with little to no schooling for 10 years.

if your parents spank you and hit you, largely thats seen as their "choice" as parents, no matter how many studies tell them it traumatizes children. and youre dependent on the adults around you and if those adults suck, or if youre in a bad situation, you have very little to no ability to change that and you just have to endure.

and thats what drives me insane about desantis is that we see more and more rhetoric like "the rights of parents" and "protecting children" but these kids are being told that they do not have rights. its as if people truly believe parents deserve to know everything, even if the child doesnt feel safe telling them. people think parents deserve to control their kids' every choice and every move. but when it comes to protecting kids from gun violence and protecting gay/trans kids and especially kids of color, republicans could not give less of a shit. hell, even the grand majority of democrats barely care.

yes, i get it. parenting is unimaginably hard. the nuclear family is unsustainable especially in today's double-income-not-even-making-rent economy. the world is fucked up. sometimes kids are shitty and it might hurt you as an adult. but kids are not evil, and kids are not adults who are acting with fully developed brains and social skills and empathy and so on and its important to keep that in mind.

on the chance that anyone wants to reply with "well i hate kids :/" look. you dont have to be a parent. but at least be kind to children in your life. let the kid in the park ramble to you about skibidi toilet or fucking whatever. you do owe people kindness, especially children

[andreabandrea]

if someone is constantly trying to turn your attention away from an issue and shut down attempts to talk about it/think about it, you should really ask why they don't want you to consider it, especially if the issue was raised by marginalized people.

even if it's something like, i dont know, terfism, i think that people need to understand why terfs are wrong and what harm they're doing rather than just trying to cover their eyes and ears. the latter leads to a lot of cases of well-intentioned liberals constantly mimicking terf talking points because they don't know how to recognize them as bullshit

[andreabandrea]

your "harmless" outdoor ant just carried away my 7 year old son mckenzeigh.

[andreabandrea]

me: and this is a mr beast burger

medieval peasant: egad... what manner of foul creature is a "mister beast" 😳

[andreabandrea]

we're playing tic tac toe. i'm going first.

now you choose.

in the event that there's a tie, i'll flip a coin (or roll a die if its a tie between more than two options).